The results (-$2,357.20) always trigger this, but I’d been contemplating whether all of this is worth it before yesterday’s disastrous run.
It’s a common refrain that includes losing hands followed by getting outplayed at higher stakes. The details I’m sure are interesting, but I really don’t see the point in putting them out there. I actually have a much bigger question: does anyone really win at this game, I mean really win as in they take out money monthly from their account or bankroll. I’d finally gotten up +$1,400 before yesterday with visions of taking cash out of my account regularly only to watch that big chunk evaporate. Granted, I still have $3k and change in my online accounts, but I am just not sure if anyone actually wins at this game.
That is all.
UPDATE
PokerStars Support was no help on the matter…
Hello Craig,
Thank you for your email. We do have literally thousands of profitable
players on the site yes, many players in fact make their living solely
playing on our site.
Unfortunately not all players can be winning players, as much as we might
like for that to be the case. We aren’t able to say why you might not be
winning as often as you like, as it could any one of a number of reasons.
Typically though you do have to be amongst the very best players around if
you want to make a considerable sum of money playing poker.
If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to get back in
touch with us.
You play a game that attracts variance. Our mutual friend, Fuel55 was kind enough to send me a couple of hundred hands from his play. I’m sure he’ll do the same for you. Look closely at his selections. He seeks reduced variance. He’ll exchange some reasonable chances for that while you accept the challenge. Fuel55 is a cheat; he wants big hand that approach sure things and only gets involved in the smaller ones for the lowered risk and decent pot odds. He’s not a coin flipper. Races are for tournaments or those that accept strong variance.
I did leave out his use of implied odds. He is one of those that has mastered that. And that is a very difficult path to learn to navigate and always contains fine lines. It is the subject of most of his blog. And the blog doesn’t explain that to his readers. It is almost like he is sucking us in. LOL
Hey Craig,
I am a strictly recreational player. I don’t follow or study poker closely enough to know how many people actually make a profit at the game, although I’m sure the PokerStars support folks are speaking truthfully that there are those who do come out ahead.
In my limited knowledge, I would guess that those who are in the black long term are those who have mastered the correct strategies and odds calculations, as well as the ability to read other players and act on those reads. These people grind out their small advantages and do their best to limit variance, as Ken mentioned. My goal, as a recreational player, is to have fun and play well enough to keep my bankroll from shrinking to zero if I can. Any
Uh oh. We should talk soon. Yes, you can win at poker. I’m up almost $5,000 since I started playing for real money a couple years ago. And yet I think you’re a better player than me. I just use good bankroll stragety, play at levels that drive you crazy and don’t take needless chances. That probably means I won’t ever be a great player – but it also means I won’t be a losing one.
I also have a stop loss for the night. I thought we were doing that. We we not doing that?
Bottom line, though, is that this game can be very cruel.
I think you answered the question yourself in your post — online poker is not worth it for you. Come back to the suburbs and play with me and Surf and BrainMc in our games. It’ll be fun for you and you won’t take a heavy beating (at least not all the time).
I feel like every time I read one of these loss posts, I get the impression you’re not taking the right steps to learn from the losses and move forward. You play too high for your skill level, it seems you lack fundamentals of play.
It’s the funniest thing, as bloggers, we have the best information available at our fingertips, yet many of us refuse to study accordingly. Your game may be pretty good at a certain level, yet I don’t think you’ve found what that level is yet. PLEASE study CardRunners videos.
The difference between you and possibly thousands of winning players is that when we’ve hit the wall of loss, we go back a level and look at our play and study it to become better. The game changes and to win, you have to adapt accordingly. Some of us will never make it to The Show but are quite content to win in the minor leagues.
At the very worst, you may have a gambling addiction and this is the most dangerous spot of all. Pull yourself away from anything that could fuel this, including being in casinos and maybe even this blog. Don’t be pressured into feeling like you have to be a winning player if you’re not yet at that spot.
I’m rooting for you, but every time I read a post from you that details a heavy loss, it makes me think dude, you have a serious problem.
CC:
You’re exhibiting some classic behaviors that indicate serious holes in both your mental attitude and strategy.
You’re obviously playing in games above your bankroll. You’re sustaining losses you aren’t prepared to absorb.
Your hand histories repeatedly show holes in your game that you’re either unwilling or unable to correct. Your e-mail to PokerStars implies that you aren’t willing to come to terms with your own failings.
Stop playing for a while and consider the reasons why you aren’t winning, and whether you should be playing.
If you’re good enough you can definitely win at this game. I only play at low stakes NL (.05/1 to 2/4) and have only been playing for real money for less than 4 months, but am up over $3000 so far. I did lose about $2000 before I turned things around, improved my game by reading books, and learned to exploit the fish. I’m still new to this game but some play it so bad that if you pick your spots well, have patience and can take more than a few bad beats (I’ve lost a lot of money to people pushing all-in and filling their flush). Still, I’ve had a $5000 winning swing, by grinding it out and playing the odd higher-steaks table, where I’ve been fortunate enough to do quite well overall.
My natural style is to play aggressively and it has worked well at those higher tables, but it has cost me quite a lot at the lower tables where the calling stations abound. Therefore I’ve adapted my game, I simply force myself to play tight and simply wait for the fish to give themselves up in the big pots. You really can milk these tables over time, but you have to be prepared to sustain infuriating hits, its happened to me many times. Still, I turned $400 into over $2000 in about 5 days at low steaks NL, and have usually managed to double whatever my starting bankroll is (usually $600) in a few days. Most of my losses have come from playing limit. I hate that game, with all your good hands dying out by the river with 2, 3 or 4 callers every time. I have literally managed to run over the low-steaks NL tables though, and I cash out my winnings as I make them, since I’m there to make money not to play just for fun. The money goes into my bank account and pays for food, goods and so on.
Criag, you have Pokertracker? Look at your summary. How many winners are in there? I am sure you have enough hands to have a decent sample size. They are not all winners, but I think you are just asking a frustrated question that you kow the answer to. Take a break and come back to the game when you feel better about it. Besides, you have a job, poker is supposed to be just fun. If you make a little or lose a little it is just fun….SJ
I just get lucky often.