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3 cases
The time now is 2010 Mar 22, 10:14
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frenchflush Posted on: 2007 Jul 12, 15:06
Hello,
Even if I don’t pretend (at all) to have the final word & solution on the following cases, I like to have a straight technic to find the solution QUICKLY … because I have to work with it NOW … and I don’t have the right as TD to look confused in front of the dealers & players!
BUT: I’m open to all the pro advices & I stay able to change my mind and to change the rules solutions … BUT ONLY BETWEEN TWO EVENTS: SURE NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ACTION! LOL!
Here they are (waiting for your advices):
1) Heads up at the river: A bets - B goes all-in - A shows immediatly his cards saying “I think I won” (strong hand but not the nuts) - Immediatly B shows his cards showing a strong but loosing hand THEN REALISE THAT PLAYER A NEVER TOLD HIS BETTING and he (B) calls for the floor!
For me: the fault his on B: he should have call the floor WHILE HIDDING HIS HAND and asking for A to be penalised for “showing his hand” and to force him to make a clear CALL or FOLD (wich I would apply as floor). But BECAUSE B SHOWS HIS HAND TOO: I will still put a penalty on A BUT the hand must be finished that way (so I suppose A will declare a CALL for sure!).
2) (similar but different) Heads up at the river: A bets 500 - B says clearly “raise” - the dealer makes an error and says “call” - so immediatly A shows his hand (any good hand but not the nuts) - B calls for the floor & ask for his rights!
For me: even if the big fault his on the dealer (he sure should apologize): like the rule of the killed hand (by a dealer) I think it’s the own player to FOLLOW THE GAME and not to be fool by nothing & nobody! So for me B MUST raise (because he annouced it) BUT CAN RAISE FREE from the minimum (1000) to the maximum (all-in)!
3) Heads up at the river (a pot around 500): A bets 500 (pot size) then immediatly answer to a phone call (still sitting at his place) - the dealer kills his hand immediatly (before any move from B) - (point: don’t blame my dealer: they are very straight on this and I support them!) - B pretends to win all the pot plus the last 500 and they both call for the floor!
For me: I apply the same rule as the accidental killed hand rule: B wins the pot but because the last bet of A (500) had not been yet payed when the dealer made his decision: A can recover his 500!
Any opinion?
GG
lrgeenen
lrgeenen 		Posted on: 2007 Jul 14, 02:05
Hello,
Even if I don’t pretend (at all) to have the final word & solution on the following cases, I like to have a straight technic to find the solution QUICKLY … because I have to work with it NOW … and I don’t have the right as TD to look confused in front of the dealers & players!
BUT: I’m open to all the pro advices & I stay able to change my mind and to change the rules solutions … BUT ONLY BETWEEN TWO EVENTS: SURE NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ACTION! LOL!
Here they are (waiting for your advices):
1) Heads up at the river: A bets - B goes all-in - A shows immediatly his cards saying “I think I won” (strong hand but not the nuts) - Immediatly B shows his cards showing a strong but loosing hand THEN REALISE THAT PLAYER A NEVER TOLD HIS BETTING and he (B) calls for the floor!
For me: the fault his on B: he should have call the floor WHILE HIDDING HIS HAND and asking for A to be penalised for “showing his hand” and to force him to make a clear CALL or FOLD (wich I would apply as floor). But BECAUSE B SHOWS HIS HAND TOO: I will still put a penalty on A BUT the hand must be finished that way (so I suppose A will declare a CALL for sure!).
2) (similar but different) Heads up at the river: A bets 500 - B says clearly “raise” - the dealer makes an error and says “call” - so immediatly A shows his hand (any good hand but not the nuts) - B calls for the floor & ask for his rights!
For me: even if the big fault his on the dealer (he sure should apologize): like the rule of the killed hand (by a dealer) I think it’s the own player to FOLLOW THE GAME and not to be fool by nothing & nobody! So for me B MUST raise (because he annouced it) BUT CAN RAISE FREE from the minimum (1000) to the maximum (all-in)!
3) Heads up at the river (a pot around 500): A bets 500 (pot size) then immediatly answer to a phone call (still sitting at his place) - the dealer kills his hand immediatly (before any move from B) - (point: don’t blame my dealer: they are very straight on this and I support them!) - B pretends to win all the pot plus the last 500 and they both call for the floor!
For me: I apply the same rule as the accidental killed hand rule: B wins the pot but because the last bet of A (500) had not been yet payed when the dealer made his decision: A can recover his 500!
Any opinion?
GG
1) the player exposing his cards, to look for a reaction, has a dead hand. He is not entitled to any of the pot.
2) It is the player's responsibility to pay attention also - even if the dealer makes a mistake. I would allow the raise.
3) Since the hand was killed and the bet of $500 had not been called, in your situation I would have given back the $500 and not sent it to "B" Linda R. Geenen
http://table-tango.pokerworks.com/
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desertblade PokerWorks
Surfslayer Posted on: 2009 Feb 11, 09:04
1) Really depends on what rules you have at YOUR poker room. Some poker rooms rule an exposed hand dead only if it isn't heads up. Other poker rooms have a rule that a player who exposes his hand (if not heads up) cannot not make any aggressive plays during that hand (raise/initial betting) but can only call and is given a warning about exposing his hand (next time it will be killed). In heads up (ONLY) most rooms I have played at (and work at) allow exposing of hands.
If the players know the rules of YOUR poker room and exposed hands are declared dead if exposed regardless if it's heads up or not then the first person to expose his hand loses the pot.
*Note* I think it was the year before last that there was a new ruling in the WSOP tournaments. If someone exposes ONE card in heads up play then at the end of the hand no matter if there was a show down or not the dealer was instructed to expose the other card. Most of the pros ("Kidpoker", Doyle Brunson, etc) were upset about this ruling because it takes away from the psychological part of the game.
2) This one is tricky. As a floor you would have to ask if the dealer or the other player heard him say raise. If the other player admits he did then allow the action to proceed. Player A must raise (min to all in). If both the dealer and the player didn't hear him then I would declare it as a call and tell the player if he can't speak clearly and loud enough he needs to let his chips "talk" for him (push out his bet(raise) in one motion). If the dealer heard him (and the player didn't or doesn't admit to it) and just goofed up then allow only a min raise and allow the other player to act. The declaration of a raise wasn't based on the exposed hand (hand was exposed AFTER he announced raise)
3) I would do the same as you did in this case. Just the pot. Not the bet. Player B is just being greedy. Where I work we have the no phone policy too. I give a warning if they answer while in a hand and tell them they must get off or their hand is dead.
*Rules and rulings*
Rules are put into place to keep the game fair and running smoothly. They aren't created so you can punish people whenever they slip up. If a player slips up and breaks a rule ask yourself a couple of questions. How did this action effect the game? Is this a regular who clearly knows the rules or a new comer who isn't familiar with the rules of your poker room? What ruling can I make so that everyone effected is "some what" satisfied?
Make sure everyone playing know the rules of your room (because every poker is different) and if there is a decent chance someone doesn't know the rules then allow some leniency and give ONE warning. You don't want to go around punishing people when ever you have the chance because you will just end up driving away business.
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